Compassion for Nature at the American School of Dhahran (ISG)
Download MP3Scott Jamieson: welcome to the empathy to impact. Podcast we are at Asd in Saudi Arabia today. I'm talking to Apura Mazen and Rishi about some work that they are doing at their school. Based on some work that they did with my colleague Ivy from inspired citizens all around compassion at their school, so really excited to dive into our conversation today and learn a little bit more about their work at their school.
Scott Jamieson: But 1st I'm going to pass over to them to do a quick introduction.
Apoorva Katti: Alright. Hello, everyone! I'm apoorva
Apoorva Katti: I'm Marsin, and I'm in 8th grade. He's also in 8th grade I'm Rishi, and I'm in 8th grade.
Scott Jamieson: Fantastic. And I wanna start out just thinking about some of the workshops you guys were involved in with my colleague Ivy, and what were some of the things you were doing in those workshops and things you took away from your experience.
Apoorva Katti: So we just so for the 1st few sessions we explored different spheres of compassion. So compassion for yourself, compassion for others. And then we went into more specifics, such as compassion for nature. And it was really that that path that inspired us to help find climate change and our schools impact on it.
Apoorva Katti: During these sessions we also were like practicing this kind of compassion through meditation and such, and we were forced to like sort of observe the environment around us, and try to develop some sort of compassion for our environment and for our peers around us as well during these sessions. So it's mostly like, theory on compassion. And then, after that, putting that compassion into practice. Which was most of these sessions work. Yeah. And at the start of the session. We usually like practice some mindfulness like disclosing our eyes, taking deep breaths and everything.
Apoorva Katti: And yeah, yeah.
Scott Jamieson: So those mindfulness practices were those something you guys had experienced with before? Or is something new as part of these workshops.
Apoorva Katti: Mostly with my mom trying chasing me with a book, trying to teach me about it. But other other than that, nothing much. So this was
Apoorva Katti: a 1st for me, at least for me. It I've been doing meditation for a while in my own room, because I realize that it's good to de- talk sometimes, because having too much like gadgets and electronics around you, or because our world is so like centered around attention, right? You have attention on this attention on this attention, on this work, this tension on that work that you kinda need to take a 5 min to like sort of cool down and take a break from the world like sort of
Apoorva Katti: Detach yourself from the world for a while, and I've been doing that. But even before these sessions started. So I'm kind of familiar with this, yeah, for me. I've done in like past school. But it was very like mild and basic. And it wasn't really this deep like besides, the ended.
Scott Jamieson: I think that's so cool that this is something you guys had a bit of experience with, but also kind of found some new value in with your work with Iv something that she actually introduced to me. Quite a lot. So I've learned a lot about mindfulness and the value of mindfulness from her from my work as we collaborate together, and it's something that I maybe didn't put as much value in when I was younger. And I think I've learned a lot about, and just the value of
Scott Jamieson: miles. And just like you're saying just kind of taking a moment in our lives. Or there's a lot of competition for our attention out there, whether it's our devices or whether it's school or all these things that are going on in our lives, and just taking a moment to give ourselves permission to slow down, I think can be really important.
Scott Jamieson: It is Morgan.
Scott Jamieson: What really kind of engage you when you're talking about these workshops on compassion. You know something we don't think about a lot in school like, you know, we oftentimes we think about our main kind of core subjects, whether we're looking at language or social studies, or math or science.
Scott Jamieson: Where does compassion fit in in education for you guys? And why is that important.
Apoorva Katti: in terms of education. It's not just going out and doing really big things. It's also a lot of the smaller actions that you do to create an impact. And then for for as an example when I personally went into Miss Jan's courses my, my expectation was they would just start a deep diving into implementation of
Apoorva Katti: more large scale. Compassion projects. But then, through the courses I understood how you know, even the smaller actions can really help to create an impact.
Apoorva Katti: So compassion for yourself in particular, that helps before before Miss Ivan's courses, I usually thought of compassion as something that was natural, because as humans we are, it's like, always, you know, caring for one another. And we always have this sort of empathy for one another and going like snowing what everyone else suffers through.
Apoorva Katti: But then I realized that compassion is a skill. You have to develop it like as a separate subject that as itself. And you kind of need to practice over time to keep on practicing the skill of compassion to make sure that you have better bonds with people, and I learned that compassion is very important to have, as it allows you to have better connections with others.
Apoorva Katti: And even though, like it doesn't help in like school subject. Specifically, it helps a lot in like connecting with others in school, and I don't even I don't. I would argue that school isn't all about just study, study, studies, and learning, learning, learning, learning, learning, learning, but it's also to make bonds with. The friends you have, because most of the friends you make here would often carry out into your work life as well, because you know that's kind of how it works. It's you always are more likely to make friends in
Apoorva Katti: in the workplace or in your shared education area rather than outside
Apoorva Katti: or randomly.
Apoorva Katti: Yeah, pretty much same thing that, Martin said. But like an education, you know, compassion you can use like the skills you use in school to change the world and help people make their lives easier, make their lives more comfortable. And even like with nature, you can make you can conserve the environment.
Apoorva Katti: Just make everything more.
Apoorva Katti: you know.
Apoorva Katti: conservative, comfortable, and better for everyone.
Scott Jamieson: I'm so inspired by listening to all of you and thinking about how compassion is so important in terms of our relationships. And I agree. It is something like thinking about having empathy and having compassion is something that a lot of us get to naturally. But I think you're right. It is a skill, and it's something that we can develop and grow in those spaces.
Scott Jamieson: And I think that really can kind of
Scott Jamieson: have a big impact on ourselves and our communities. So I really am feeling inspired about what you're talking about. And I wanna be a little bit on something that Rishi said. And I think you've all sort of
Scott Jamieson: talked about how compassion for the environment is something that really kind of resonated with all of you.
Scott Jamieson: I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit more.
Apoorva Katti: While he's thinking. Let me, while he's thinking, the idea of compassion for the environment. How like? How can you repeat your question again?
Scott Jamieson: Sure. This where you guys are all mentioned like something when you were talking to to Ivy about how like compassion for nature and compassion for the environment is something that kind of resonated with you, something you felt was important.
Scott Jamieson: Can you speak to that a little bit more.
Apoorva Katti: I mean, it's kind of yeah, I'm done thinking now. So it's kind of I would say both
Apoorva Katti: something individuals individuals can work towards, but also the collective can right, because small actions can also help and show your compassion for the environment. But large scale, larger scale projects such as the ones we're we implemented. Though they, they can also make make a bigger change. And the and the good thing about it is. If we all come together and do these small scale actions, we can really achieve a bigger impact
Apoorva Katti: at similar to what a 4 of us said, I would say that it's always the little steps that matter in order to make a big impact. So it's it doesn't always have to be a large thing to happen in order to make a large impact. It's always about the little thing in your life that you can always do to M. Make for a better future. I always like
Apoorva Katti: Le. Let me give an example. Right? Let's say one to the power of any value or like, let's say like, if you're improving every day, if you're not improving every day by at least like a point 5 percentage right.
Apoorva Katti: it'd always be the same number. But if you're improving like a little bit right, like 0 point 1 right or 0 point 1 like by 0 point 1. Then you would multiply to get like a larger number than you were before like, how do I explain this? It's kind of hard to explain this without drawing it out. But you get the point you kind of. It's always the little actions that always tumble over to make the bigger impact.
Scott Jamieson: I like that and imagine I I'm was a math teacher for a long time in my career. So I appreciate the math example and right, that cumulative impact of those small actions. And we think about some of these big issues where we're facing as a global society. And it's not one silver bullet solution.
Scott Jamieson: But it's millions and millions of these small actions that are gonna add up. And so I might add, kind of a metaphor here, thinking about a snowball rolling down a hill. I'm originally from Canada, and so that Snowball started to pretty small. But as it's rolling down a hill, it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger as our actions are growing, and also inspiring others
Scott Jamieson: to be part of that action with us, and kind of sharing a call to action to bring people and create kind of a space of unity and belonging or bringing other people in. And all of a sudden those small actions become a little bit larger scale.
Scott Jamieson: and that's guess where I want to go next is thinking about how your actions have kind of grown and what you've done
Scott Jamieson: to take this learning from these workshops and turn that into action in your own community. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Apoorva Katti: So the 1st thing we did is Saudi Arabia, right? So it's I mean, it's already an extreme climate. So we're going to start feeling. The effects of climate change a lot earlier than any a a lot of other people. And
Apoorva Katti: it's especially. And because of our extreme climate, we also consume more energy to suit our needs. So both ways, we're we're just we consume a lot, and we are also more affected by it. So it's especially important in a country like this to create create a bigger impact. So one of the 1st things we did was we emailed our school administration to
Apoorva Katti: consider, to think about a solution for turning off the lights in our middle school area. So we have a we have a common hallway and a and a space called the Blend Learning Area. And then all the classrooms at regular intervals. Right? So we were thinking, since since the area are. All has lots of windows. We should take advantage of these abundant daylight and turn up the lights, then, so take advantage of our climate and and work towards a better impact
Apoorva Katti: similar to what a poor. But I said, If if Saudi, or like the schools in Saudi or such, it's our school which consumes a lot of energy and feel, and is probably one of the biggest like factors in causing this global warming starts to turn a new leaf and starts to be Eco friendly, it would cause a ripple effect across the whole world, where even some like countries that use lesser greenhouse, or, like Ca, produce lesser greenhouse gases than Saudi. Arabia would also like reform to the new change as well.
Apoorva Katti: So the biggest fact, like
Apoorva Katti: cause of climate change, begins to stop or begins to decrease in Cla like causing this, it would eventually send a message to the world. That would event that will cause the rest of the world to also turn a new relief. They would be like, oh, since this country did it! What's the excuse that we can't do it as well.
Apoorva Katti: That's kind of what we're trying to aim for here by making our school the model school for it, and then making hoping leave hopefully, making the other schools in the region you know, follow our schools example. And then it's another example of the snowball effect, isn't it? I mean, as a person who's never seen snow before, I mean.
Apoorva Katti: but but I but I get. But I get the point of the metaphor right, because if if we send one thing. It's like knocking down doctors.
Apoorva Katti: So to provide an alternative. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure there was like, Oh, we with what our school uses like in one day. We could power like over 1,000 homes in Saudi for one day, and
Apoorva Katti: you know it just
Apoorva Katti: keeps on adding up. And if if more schools save energy, since there's such like a large energy either, it's if more people save energy and just turn off lights, then think of, like all the other homes we could power for like a day, conserve more energy for later mitigate climate change
Apoorva Katti: and just make the world better in general. I haven't. I have a kind of like a metaphor for strike. The shepherd and the sheep will scatter. That's how we would say it. If we strike one of the biggest factors of climate change, we can scatter the sheep and use our energy wisely.
Apoorva Katti: That's what I'd say.
Scott Jamieson: That makes so much sense. And I love the idea of as this international school. In Saudi Arabia, looking to be that sort of beacon of action and hope and inspiring others through your work. And you're right. There's a lot of opportunity at our schools, and that's what I love about your initiative of, you know, flipping the switch
Scott Jamieson: and looking at opportunities. You know, if we have, you know. It's a bright, sunny day, you know. Maybe we don't need the lights on. I mean, we don't need the lights on the hallway when no one's walking through there, and maybe we could put sensors, you know, in some of those hallways to kind of say, Hey, we'll light up when people are there and not when people are not, and there's a lot of ways we can look to conserve energy.
Scott Jamieson: How have you become more aware of this issue in terms of energy consumption? Your school is people you've talked to or research, you've done like, how did you really kind of become more knowledgeable about this through this work?
Apoorva Katti: So in terms of knowledge. And actually, first, st the 1st one of the 1st things we did, we already use Saudi Arabia as a very high per capita energy consumption. And we did some research. The exact number is around 8,900 kilowatt hours per capita, while the global average is closer to 3,100. So it's already. It's already quite a massive. It's an obvious gap between Saudi in the world and our school. It's it definitely contributes a lot to that
Apoorva Katti: pro because it's pretty much going 24, 7. So and we wanted. And after we got this information. We also wanted a bit more scope on the problem. So we contacted support services the school support services, and they gave us a monthly and daily estimate of the energy. So daily, it's around 23,333. You know what hours? Yeah.
Apoorva Katti: And then that's where we got the statistic that it can power around 1,296 homes with the daily energy consumption with the with the stats that homes in Saudi was an average of 18 kilowatt hours per 20.
Scott Jamieson: What are some opportunities, do you see, to maybe consert conserve energy? We talked about that a little bit, but maybe even to convert to kind of more green energy sources like, are there opportunities for that in Saudi Arabia or at your school? You think.
Apoorva Katti: We could start with that by well, it might be a really tall promise, but installing solar energy is like one of the best things that Saudi could do right now, because there's so much sun here that all of that sun energy that's being like shined on us, especially during summer. During summer. It's so hot and it's so bright that the energy being used like there, like being
Apoorva Katti: that could be used using solar energy would be like so much. You would power the school without even using more like by using energy like from batteries and such. You know, it's much better if if they use solar power panels.
Apoorva Katti: it would be, it would be a much better idea rather than what they're currently doing. And also another thing to add, Is that
Apoorva Katti: how else would we another another but that we so far we wanna do simple steps right now. We wanna make sure that like the lights are off, and most students prefer the lights being off so it wouldn't be a bother to like. Just turn off all the lights into school. And we all we may also consider using you know how like most schools use like laptops for everything right? And even the Sats are turning towards a digital sats. They're not doing the paper once next year. They're gonna do internationally, everyone's doing the digital sat.
Apoorva Katti: So may maybe we might use less of like the digital stuff unless it's absolutely necessary. Maybe like making some class work like needing to do on paper, because one, it builds more muscle like better memory of what you drew like wrote down and 2. It's just it saves more energy than if we just you kept using laptops all the time. And also it helps our eyes as well.
Apoorva Katti: For a quick reality check. Most students prefer having the lights off so that they can catch up on their sleep. But it's including this guy Rishi definitely him, especially him. But but but it is, it is still a good idea. And nonetheless the fact that the people students, teachers supported in general is just an added bonus
Apoorva Katti: solar energy. As Muslim said, it's a bit far away, but it's not completely feasible for us right now, but it's definitely something that the school can do
Apoorva Katti: if they invest in it. They're saving so much money on just buying batteries, or, like, you know, having to get like, how do I say, power the generators, or saving so much money and so much energy as well?
Apoorva Katti: It's renewable.
Apoorva Katti: Yeah. And you don't even need to like you don't have to power the lights in a lot of classrooms, because we always really large windows that go through one side of the classroom, but kind of like access a wall. But it's still like a window, so we can just use the sunlight that comes in from there as lights, and then use the power that we get from the solar panels if we get solar panels
Apoorva Katti: towards other things. But then our light system at this point is already pretty modernized. The the most of the classrooms are good with motion motion sensors for the nights, so no one's in there for like a long time. Everyone like the lights just turn off exactly.
Scott Jamieson: So it sounds like your school is kind of moving along this pathway towards being a little bit more sustainability or a little bit more, I should say a little bit more sustainable when we think about our energy consumption.
Scott Jamieson: And you said that that
Scott Jamieson: solar energy is probably a little ways down the road for your school.
Scott Jamieson: Yes, we talked about as you guys were talking a lot of opportunity in terms of, you know, access to a lot of solar energy in Saudi Arabia
Scott Jamieson: is there, do you think? An opportunity for the 3 of you? Maybe with your you know, work
Scott Jamieson: to collaborate with someone in Facilities department to maybe
Scott Jamieson: explore a proposal towards what that might look like in terms of what the upfront investment costs or what the return on investment might be in terms of solar. Do you feel there's an opportunity there? Or this is something your schools, maybe not quite right.
Apoorva Katti: Elaborate with one of our one of the staff members to like. See what how much it cost to get the solar energy, like solar panels running.
Apoorva Katti: Is that what you're.
Scott Jamieson: Question. That is something exactly like, do you think there might be an opportunity there, or we just maybe we're not there yet, as a community.
Apoorva Katti: It's no we are, we are there. It's technically possible. But I don't know. It still seems a bit farfetched. But the thing is. The school makes so much money, especially from like how much money, anyways. But it's still we'll have to go. We'll have to go a lot higher up and
Apoorva Katti: and it'll take a lot longer. So for now I I would say, we just focus on stuff we can do within the school, and then we will, and then outside the school. It's for later. Not now. I I don't think it's feasible at this point.
Scott Jamieson: The reason I bring that up is, there's a school in Beijing in China Beijing City International School, and they started with a bit of a pilot project with a few solar panels at their school, and it was a student led initiative that began that process, and that has grown, you know, and I
Scott Jamieson: I'm a bit out of touch, but I'm not sure where they are in the process. But they were working towards hopefully, because again. The bulk of our energy use in schools is during the day right? The schools tend to get a little quieter at nighttime, so the bulk of our energies is during the day. So it's a great opportunity. And we're seeing more and more schools kind of switch to
Scott Jamieson: solar panels and thinking about you right? We have to kind of balance that out in terms of budget we have to invest in solar panels. And looking at, you know, how long are those gonna take to return that investment to the school. And that's kind of a complicated process. But I think it's oftentimes do. I've seen it's been student led initiatives that have really got that started your school. So this might be a cool opportunity for you guys.
Apoorva Katti: It. Yeah, it would be I I agree. But
Apoorva Katti: so the student led initiative that you are talking about, and they probably I'm assuming they had to do a lot of same marketing gather support from the main portion of the student body. It's a it's a it's more a question of marketing public support rather than the actual construction.
Apoorva Katti: Because then, mainframe, rewiring the actual installation that it technically can be done, it's possible. But the pro. The stuff leading up to that is the stuff that really matters, because without that nothing can happen.
Apoorva Katti: I think the best idea would. Because since we're just 3 people 3. The support of 3 people isn't enough. If we manage to get the whole public in on the idea of solar energy, then maybe we could be successful and do the same thing that the those students in Beijing did.
Apoorva Katti: So. It's more of just public opinion, as a portmant said, and campaigning for the right cause.
Scott Jamieson: And that leads me into my next question, thinking about flipping the switch for a better day. Your current initiative, where we're trying to conserve energy at school.
Scott Jamieson: How are we sharing this message? How are we bringing other people in
Scott Jamieson: to share in your work?
Apoorva Katti: So, for now we're trying to keep it. So this year we did it within middle school, but we were planning to do something with elementary as well, but that just it didn't fall into place. So we switch it to specifically middle school instead. So the further we did, we did an awareness presentation with the middle school to spread awareness about the change
Apoorva Katti: and the common and our plan ourselves specifically, and the common and the common area that I talked about earlier. It's called the blended learning area. So there. So there are 2 smart ports there. They display a slide show, basic information about the school, the weather conditions, lunch, menu, etc. So we we've also created a few slides that we put over there, so that and since people pass by that location all the time it's gonna be
Apoorva Katti: is just reminding everyone about their duty towards the planet and what they can do.
Scott Jamieson: That sounds fantastic. I am really inspired by how the 3 of you have really kind of taken this on to really take your learning that you've learned with Iv and turning that into an initiative that is really gonna have that positive impact in your community in terms of energy consumption. And just that environmental awareness that we're sharing with our community.
Apoorva Katti: It's just not. It's not just the 3 of us. There's also 3 others. But the other, those other 3. But you know it's just they couldn't make it to this. Podcast so it's fine and we also had a lot of help from Miss Often and Miss so fills us as well. So it's not just the students, but it's also the teachers, and the, you know, leads who have help in helping. They've helped us a lot with these initiatives, and they've reformed our plans so much that it made us like think twice about how we wanted to go through with our plans.
Scott Jamieson: I appreciate you taking the time to share that gratitude with people in your community who have been helping support you in this work.
Scott Jamieson: What?
Scott Jamieson: I want to rephrase that. This is why we're not live.
Scott Jamieson: Huh?
Scott Jamieson: Can you tell me a little bit about how you have grown through this experience, thinking about the workshops with Iv. Coming into starting this initiative with flipping the switch for a better day.
Scott Jamieson: How has this really impacted you personally over this last little while.
Apoorva Katti: I think during the throughout this process of doing this whole action plan.
Apoorva Katti: I think I've grown a lot as a person, because in the beginning. I'm not. I'm being very honest with you right now. In the beginning of doing this project, most of us, and except for approval, approval was the hardest worker here, but most of us were very lazy with the action plan, and we didn't get anything done. We were so slow with our pace. It didn't really. It wasn't really hard to get on task, and we were all distracted and stuff. But then, in the middle and near the end. We were the most focus. And we started like building that drive to work as hard as we can
Apoorva Katti: to finish this action plan because we were really passionate about it near the end of it. But we do admit, I think I admit I was very lazy in the beginning, but I think I've grown more and more to work hard and love the action project. I started seeing it less as a burden and more as something I really want to do in the future, and I want to see our school change in the future rather than just some tasks that I have to do. So. That's really my growth as a student, and it may help me help me realize
Apoorva Katti: that I should also get my stuff together because approval was really carrying. Most of the group have to say lots of thanks to him. He is the best one.
Apoorva Katti: Yeah. So at 1st I started. You know the meetings with the end. It was, I thought, mindfulness of this completely useless. Still, you know, it was just a waste of time you didn't really use it like. And then a as the training started just going on and on, I started actually using more and realizing how good it was
Apoorva Katti: and useful. And I started actually like implementing it in my life. It was a Purva who did all the emails. He did all the communications with the teachers. He did everything. Okay. He was the. He was the mastermind.
Apoorva Katti: I mean. I I agree a lot with every sheets perspective on the training sessions, because then the more the more we actually did, the more we understood, like both the drive behind compassion, what we can do and how to implement it. And now that we started it, it's it's also a lot. It's also gives us a lot of motivation to finish it, to go through with it even next year and continue hopefully.
Scott Jamieson: I do know what you mean, and that leads me to my next question. Actually, you guys are doing a great job. What aspirations do you have? We are coming to the end of this school year. What aspirations do you have for your work for next school year?
Apoorva Katti: Maybe just like expand, like, right now we're in.
Apoorva Katti: We're just like the Middle School space. Maybe next year we could extend to high school. Since we're going to be in high school. We already have like a base in middle school right now, but next year we have. We will be in high school that said, and we can extend it to high school, and maybe even try to like contact the concert and everyone for elementary and try to extend it to elementary as well, and just get it through throughout the entire school
Apoorva Katti: along with expanding. I'd also like to submit our basis in middle school. I don't want our work in middle school disappearing, and I also want to get down to the elementary as well. So yeah, as Richie said, we will expand, and, you know, do more. You'll take more measures in making sure that we're conserving as much energy as we can while still being able to function in our school.
Apoorva Katti: We also like to keep our main base of operations in middle school, and probably, like 9th grade, like high school and stuff to like, stay alive for as long as possible. We don't want all of our work next year being completely scrapped.
Apoorva Katti: and, like all of it, is gone. We want to continue off. It's like building a new chapter of making a new chapter in this new story.
Scott Jamieson: I think that sustainability part is important. And it's also a big challenge for students. As you guys progress from grade level to grade, level and division to division.
Scott Jamieson: How do we keep that momentum going? And how do we
Scott Jamieson: build on the work we're already doing? And I think you guys have already started doing a great job of bringing other people in and sharing this work. Then hopefully, by inspiring some other people in school next year, maybe even elementary school. We can continue to see that growth with this program. I think it's so important that work you're doing and thinking about how we might be able to conserve energy, and how we might be able to be a model in our community
Scott Jamieson: to see that.
Scott Jamieson: you know, we see that we're showing other people that how we might be able to be sustainable and really kind of lead by example.
Scott Jamieson: Are there any questions? Or is there anything else you guys would like to share that? I haven't asked the right question to allow you to share.
Apoorva Katti: Well, let's think of something there must be, and there must be something on the slide.
Apoorva Katti: What do you mean? What do you like? What I did not ask. That was on the sides. I mean.
Apoorva Katti: that's pretty much everything, Lew. That's all of our project. Yes.
Scott Jamieson: Okay, cool. I I did a good job. Then.
Scott Jamieson: alright, I'm gonna come back into character, and we'll just kind of wrap up
Scott Jamieson: Rishi Rishi, Mazin and Apura. It's been so inspiring to have a chance to connect with all of you and learn about your work. How this grew out of that compassion work that started with Iv. And you were able to kind of run with that and take this on initiative of your own with flipping the switch for a better day, and how we might be able to inspire our community to conserve energy and be.
Scott Jamieson: you know, a little bit more responsible in terms of having an impact on climate change.
Scott Jamieson: So thank you so much for taking some time and a busy time of year to share your story. I am really grateful to have a chance to connect.
Scott Jamieson: And yeah, thank you.
Apoorva Katti: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your time as well as Moana, said Ma, and as Marzan said, it was a pleasure to talk to you.
Scott Jamieson: Alright, I'm gonna turn off our recording. You guys are awesome. That's fantastic.
